March, 1985 Interview of
Feivel (Philip) Zitomersky, son of Arul/Aron
by Constance Tobias Taus
(Transcription by Nathen Gabriel)
Feivel (Philip) Zitomersky was born in Borshchagovka (Burshivka in Yiddish) in 1907, and died in Florida in 1985.
He came to America with his family in 1922, and lived in New Jersey. He was the son of Arul (Aron) Zitomersky and Brucha Kuperwarg (Bertha Cooper).
People referenced in the interview:
Interviewer: Constance Tobias Taus, daughter of Nathan & Charlotte Tobias.
Interviewee: Feivel (Philip) Zitomersky.
Uncle Lazar: Louis Tobias (Lazar Taibatch), born in Borshchagovka in 1878.
“Tante” Itte: Itta Kuperwarg (Cooper), wife of Louis Tobias, born in Borshchagovka in 1879.
Surke: Sarah (Tobias) Sheinhait, daughter of Louis & Itte Tobias, born in Borshchagovka ca1896.
Menashe Berliand: Morris Berlind, born in Borshchagovka in 1908.
Chaim and David: sons of Louis & Itte Tobias.
Nathan: Nathan Tobias, son of Louis & Itte Tobias, born in Borshchagovka in 1907; Feivel’s first cousin.
Chaytsina: Chaie Tzinna (Berlind) Kuperwarg, born in Borshchagovka ca1857, wife of Duvid Yakov Kuperwarg; Feivel’s grandmother.
Duvid Yakov Kuperwarg: Feivel’s grandfather, born ca1852 .
Dave: Dave Zitomer (Duvid Zitomersky), Feivel’s older brother, born in Borshchagovka in 1905.
Feivel’s parents: Arul/Aron Zitomersky, born in Borshchagovka ca1877; and Brucha/Bertha (Kuperwarg/Cooper) Zitomersky, born in Borshchagovka ca1884.
“Fetter Reful” (“Uncle Raphael”): Reful Figilman, born in Borshchagovka ca1849.
Ruchel (Berlind) Figilman: wife of Reful Figilman; sister of Chaie Tzinna (Berlind) Kuperwarg.
The interview:
The house in Burshivka (apparently the house of Uncle Lazar and “Tante” Itte [Louis & Ita Tobias]:
Feivel thought that there were people living in “a kind of basement.” On the main floor there were four rooms - a bedroom where the boys used to sleep, a kitchen, a dining room and a large room where Uncle Lazar and “Tante” Itte slept.
Surke [Tobias] (who saved Menashe Berliand's life) used to sleep with “them” (probably Uncle Lazar and “Tante” Itte). “Tante” Itte had two more children: Chaim Tobias who was killed in the 1919 pogrom, and David Tobias who died of malnutrition. David did not want to serve in the Russian Army (probably around 1914) so his parents sent him to Odessa. Feivel remembers him returning from Odessa looking “thin and drawn?” - something about starving himself by eating “polyseeds.” (In the background a man says that Jewish men would jump off of a roof in order to maim themselves so that they wouldn't have to serve in the Russian Army.)
Feivel reveals that his own father gave himself hemorrhoids so that he wouldn't have to serve in the Russian Army, but apparently he had to serve anyway.
Constance asks what kind of store Feivel's father [Arul/Aron Zitomersky] had, and I believe he answers “cloth” (that is, dry goods). She also wants to know what kind of store her grandfather [Louis Tobias] had. Feivel answers that it was like a general store in that it stocked a lot of different items like food, oil, kerosene, grease for wagons, etc. Constance asks who worked in the store, her grandfather or her grandmother. Feivel seems to answer that they both did but that her grandfather wasn't much of a businessman.
She then asks whether her grandfather was liked, and Feivel answers yes and that he pretty well minded his own business. Constance says that she was six when he died. Feivel then mentions that her grandfather had only one eye. There is then a discussion about whether he had a glass eye. Apparently he did have one (he took it out for his granddaughter!) but only later in life.
The man in the background then asks whether Feivel or Nathan [Tobias] lived in the rich part of town. Feivel answers that there was no such thing as rich and poor parts of town. It was all the same (that is, most people were equally poor!).
Constance then asks who the shops belonged to. Feivel answers that the shops belonged to Jews but that the customers were mostly “Goyim,” that is Gentiles. This confuses Constance and she asks whether Feivel didn't live in the Jewish part of town. (In fact, most of the towns where Jews lived had a Jewish majority, and the Ukrainian peasants lived in villages that surrounded these towns.)
Feivel states that there were four big streets (not divided into blocks) in the area where he lived, and that the Jews lived on all sides of the marketplace (the one paved road where all of the stores were).
The town was on a hill (“Hill of Beets!”). The flour mills were down on the river and would be flooded every spring, as would the houses in the lower part of town. I couldn't quite make it out but I think he mentions a “water wheel.”
Constance asks Feivel how many people lived in the town, but Feivel didn't know. He then begins to talk about the synagogues. He starts with the Beis Hamedresh (“House of Study” that doubles as a synagogue). Then I think that he mentions the “Groyse Sheel” (the “Great Synagogue”).
There were three smaller synagogues which were each attended by tradesmen who were looked down upon socially. One was the Carpenters' Synagogue (carpenter is stolyar in Russian/Yiddish). Another was the Tailors' Synagogue (tailor is schneider in German/Yiddish), and the third was the Shoemakers' Synagogue (shoemaker is schuster in German/Yiddish but pronounced schister by Ukrainian Jews).
Feivel then explains that the merchants of the town were considered to be of a higher class than the tradesmen.
He then mentions that on his side of the family they had a lot of “Shochtim” (“Ritual Slaughterers”), three or four of them and he explains that they were considered to be of a higher class.
Feivel explains that the merchants were not considered to be of a higher class just because they were merchants. They were more educated than the tradesmen. That is, the tradesmen could not afford to educate their children beyond “Cheder” (age thirteen).
Feivel remembers the Russian Revolution in the Fall of 1917 when they paraded around with red flags.
Constance brings Feivel back to a discussion of the classes of society in Burshivka. Besides the tradesmen already mentioned, the profession of “Balegule” (driver of a horse and wagon used as a taxi service) was also considered to be low class.
Feivel then tells how his father and Fetter [Uncle] Lazar before him were in charge of the “Ma'os Chittim” program in Burshivka. Baskets full of products for Passover would be distributed to the poor in town. This was also an indication of belonging to a higher class.
On the same subject of class, Feivel says that his father and Nathan's father had permanent seats in a very prominent place in the Beis Hamedresh Synagogue (mentioned above). The important people sat on the eastern wall of the synagogue where the scrolls of the Torah were kept.
Feivel says that his father and Fetter Lazar were considered to be a “Nugid” (a leader) in the town. Feivel defines “Nugid” - “rich man relative to the other Jews in Burshivka.” The male voice in the background then says: “If a man could supply the needs of his family for two days in a row he was considered a rich man.” (Most everyone else in these poor towns earned their living one day at a time.)
Constance then asks about the social status of her grandmother and Feivel's mother. Feivel says that Babe (Grandma) Chaytsina [Chaie Tzinna (Berlind) Kuperwarg] was of the same merchant class. Constance asks what Feivel's grandfather [Duvid Yakov Kuperwarg] did for a living. Feivel again refers to his grandfather as Yakov or Yankel (see above where he is called David Yakov or just David) and says that he was also a storekeeper. Feivel explains that this is the reason they were able to marry off their children to a more educated class of people.
Feivel explains that in those days you “bought” a husband. A father would give his daughter a dowry (“naden” in Yiddish) with which to “buy” her husband. The bigger the dowry the better class husband could be “bought.”
Constance then gets Feivel to admit that he and her father would have considered themselves to be “special,” that is of a higher, more educated class of people. As an example Feivel gives his elder brother Dave who went to a “Gymnasia” (high school outside of Burshivka) for one year and he states that he too would have gone to a “Gymnasia” in the Fall of 1919 if it weren't for the pogroms.
Feivel then confirms what Morris Berlind said that the first place they ran to after the pogrom was Dzyunkov (Zhinkov). The whole extended family seems to have run together, although Feivel mentions only his mother and Aunt Itte and their families. Feivel also reveals that in addition to Chaim [Tobias] being killed, Feivel's two sisters were also killed. He also mentions a brother who had died. He says that his mother's [Brucha/Bertha (Kuperwarg) Zitomersky] skull was smashed (Constance remembers seeing the mark - Is that why she only lived 58 years?) and for that reason they were not able to take any belongings. Feivel says that they stayed overnight in Dzyunkov. Constance asks how old Feivel would have been. He says that in 1918 he was eleven years old.
Constance then asks about Feivel's great grandparents (her grandmother Itte's grandparents). Feivel says that he remembers only his father's father and Babe Chaytsina [Chaie Tzinna (Berlind) Kuperwarg].
The male voice in the background then asks Feivel whether he is older than him. Feivel answers: “I am 76 (in March of 1985). I will be 77 in August.” Nathan would have turned 77 on March 1 (approximate), 1985. He was born before Passover. He says that Nathan was five months older than him, and that he is four months older than Morris Berlind. Morris had estimated that Nathan was only six months older than him.
So:
Nathan TAIBATCH/TOBIAS - c. March 1, 1907
Feivel ZHITOMIRSKY - August, 1907
Menashe BERLIAND - January 8, 1908
Morris Berlind lived 500 feet from Nathan Tobias and 1,000 yards from Feivel's house.
Chaytsina became a widow at a very young age when Feivel's grandfather was killed. She had a sister Ruchel. Ruchel's husband was “Fetter Reful” (“Uncle Raphael”) [Reful Figilman] who was a wealthy man. I believe that Feivel then says that his nephew (Merwin Zitomer?) is named after him. Fetter Reful put Chaytsina in business because she was very poor with three sons and two daughters. Both Fetter Reful and Chaytsina had shops that sold different kinds of flour.
Feivel then tells us something about the measurements used in Russia. Flour was purchased by the Pud (Ukrainian Jews pronounced it “Pid”). Feivel says that a Pud was equal to forty pounds.
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